June 28, 2022

Learning to Lead Future Tech Leaders with Dr. Stacey Ashley

by Hacker Valley Studio

Show Notes

Leadership expert, Dr. Stacey Ashley, joins us at the Hacker Valley Studio to talk about her journey from the corporate world of leadership to her current roles in consulting and coaching. As a speaker, author, and educator for leaders, especially executive and C-level leaders, Dr. Ashley shares foundational skills needed to go from expert to leader, mindset shifts that need to occur regarding our perspective on our own leadership responsibilities, and experiences that inspired her to become an author. 

Timecoded Guide: 

[02:58] Developing stronger leadership capabilities and understanding the value of scaling work with her decision to become an author  

[09:51] Jumping over the hurdles and obstacles to becoming a better leader through mindfulness, practice, and checking the privilege of your executive role 

[13:45] Knowing when to get off the treadmill of busyness and focusing on setting better boundaries for yourself as a leader 

[20:53] Cultivating the next level of leadership with a focus on mentoring, role modeling, and coaching  

[25:40] Providing advice for future leaders and understanding the values of awareness and of developing your listening skills  

Sponsor Links: 

Thank you to our sponsors Axonius and AttackIQ for bringing this episode to life! 

Want to learn more about how Mindbody enhanced its asset visibility and increased its cybersecurity maturity rating with Axonius? Check out axonius.com/mindbody

AttackIQ - better insights, better decisions, and real security outcomes. That's why we partnered with them to create free cybersecurity trainings! Check it out at  academy.attackiq.com 


What have been some of the challenges that you've seen, out of yourself or from others, to start to cultivate that leadership ability? 

There’s a common path to leadership in many industries, especially tech and cyber, where becoming good at your job skyrockets you into leadership spaces and executive roles. While this is often an achievement worth being proud of, Dr. Ashley warns that we rarely mentor and teach these newly appointed leaders how to lead. Expert skills are important to have, but not being able to satisfy your executive role and your leadership responsibilities with developed leadership skills leads to confusion and dissatisfaction amongst employees and clients who aren’t receiving the type of leadership guidance normally delivered by someone in that role. 

“It's great to have those specialist skills, but it's not enough. If you're going to lead people, if you're going to lead a program of work, if you're going to be a thought leader, or an influencer, or any of those things, you need to have more skills.” 


What are some of the common obstacles that people have that keeps them from being the best leader that they can be? 

Dr. Ashley is the first to admit that tech leadership issues and obstacles are hardly a one size fits all. However, a commonality she sees is a focus on busyness instead of on active leadership practices. Being “busy” does not translate into high levels of productivity, especially for leaders in prominent company or industry roles. She advises that a better focus for leaders and aspiring executives is to practice their leadership skills and prioritize finding a coach or mentor, instead of just filling up their schedule with unnecessary busy work. 

“This whole concept of busy isn't actually very effective. Busy is just doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff. One of the things that I find that great leaders do is that they're really clear about where they make a difference, where they add value, where they can make a real contribution. They don't focus on being busy, they focus on the important stuff.”  


What sort of creative license do you give for those people that just want to be helpful, but are over taxed when it comes to their job?  

We all want to better prioritize our tasks and to feel less overwhelmed by our work, but setting boundaries often feels mean or unrealistic for those used to being helpful and people pleasing. Dr. Ashley sees this a lot in her work, where she often advises people to consider how they’re saying no and what ways they’re presenting what they’re working on. By showing people that you have important tasks that rely on your focus to attend to, you’re inviting them to see your time in a much more understanding light and you will invite them to consider that they should try on their own for a solution and prioritize their own tasks before they can engage with you again. 

“I think if we let people know that we're doing something else, and that it has a big impact, then they're much more understanding. Also, we're giving that other person some time to see if they can figure that thing out on their own rather than relying on us.” 


What are some of the tenants that you follow for cultivating the next level of leadership? 

Dr. Ashley believes that one of our key responsibilities as leaders is to grow this next generation of leaders and help them develop the best leadership skills imaginable. She advocates for this by focusing on three core tenants. The first being mentorship, meaning you’re willing to share your knowledge, wisdom, and experiences all on a personal mentorship front. The second is role modeling, where you’re showing how to be a good leader, representing what that looks like for everyone in your business. The third? Coaching, which she bases a large majority of her career around. Being able to coach and provide a customizable approach for future leaders allows them to address what they need to learn and where they need to grow. 

“I don't know if every leader recognizes this, but every day, you are role modeling. You may not be role modeling great stuff, but you are role modeling. And so, you have a responsibility every day to recognize your role modeling.” 



Stay in touch with Dr. Stacey Ashley on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram 

Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter  

Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter 

Purchase a HVS t-shirt at our shop 

Continue the conversation by joining our Discord 

Check out Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio 


Hacker Valley Studio 00:07
Who says tech can't be human?
Stacey 00:15
To me, there are three key things that we need to do. The first one is, of course, we need to mentor. We need to share our wisdom and our stories. The second thing, of course, is we need to role model. And then, the third thing is you coach.
Hacker Valley Studio 00:30
Welcome to the Hacker Valley Studio podcast.
Ron 00:35
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Ron 01:06
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Ron 01:18
What's going on everybody? You're in the Hacker Valley Studio with your hosts, Ron and Chris
Ron 01:31
Yes, sir.
Chris 01:33
Welcome back to the show.
Ron 01:36
Glad to be back again. Our guest this episode is Stacey Ashley. Stacey is a high performance and leadership coaching expert and has helped 1000s of individuals develop their leadership, confidence, credibility, and competence. Stacey has also recently authored two books in one month. Surprising, awesome, crazy. The two books that she recently authored were Power Up, and You're on Mute. Stacey, thank you again for taking the time out. Welcome to the podcast.
Stacey 02:09
Hey, I am so thrilled to be here, thanks so much.
Chris 02:13
We are thrilled to have you. Leadership is one of our favorite topics of all time, I feel like I've spent my entire life cultivating my leadership ability, but for the folks that don't know who you are just yet, we'd love to hear a little bit about your background and what you're doing today.
Stacey 02:28
Well, I think I've just led forever, whether it was sport or school or in corporate, that's just been my life. And so, I've spent the last 15 years, or so, really helping organizations around the world to grow and develop more people who can be good at leading, particularly change and transformation, which hey, after the last couple of years in the world is pretty relevant, right? And so, yeah, I just really want to make it as easy as possible for people to step up and lead because the world needs leadership.
Ron 02:58
So, let's jump right into that then. One of the things that I've found, as a challenge, is to become a leader. How to do that, and really have that mindset. When I first got started in my career, I was so focused on being very technical and knowing all the bits and bytes of technology, but I forgot about the human element of it all. What have been some of the challenges that you've seen, out of yourself or from others, to start to cultivate that leadership ability?
Stacey 03:27
Yeah, and the point that you just talked about where people get, they're so good at what they do, you know, they have this knowledge in their particular specialist domain, which is amazing, and then, somehow, they get put into some kind of a leadership role, whether they get promoted, or someonesays, "Hey, you should do this." And so, they find themselves in this role, and no one really explains to
them the difference between what they were doing as an expert, and what they're now being asked to do. And so, I think that that's a really big gap and it's probably one of the biggest ones that I see in just about every organization, or community body, or you know, you name it. I think that the first thing is that, whether it's the organization, whether it's the leader's leader, whether it's the individual themselves, you need to recognize actually, it's different. And so, it's great to have those specialist skills, but it's not enough if you're going to lead people, if you're going to lead a program of work, if you're going to be a thought leader, or an influencer, or any of those things, you need to have more skills. The first thing is just to recognize it, I think, and then it's to figure out, "Okay, what's the gap?" It might be a knowledge gap, it might be a mindset gap, it might be a behavior gap, and then: How do I go about addressing that? There're so many things that you can do and so many people you can learn from, there's free information and education, and all those sorts of things, but I think the very first thing is just getting that awareness. So, that would be my number one thing because, even the most senior leaders, I find often have a gap that started right when they very first became a leader.
Chris 05:03
Tell us a little bit about your leadership journey. Obviously, this is something you decided to focus on, this was your intention, but when was that turning point for you? Was it something earlier on, when you were in sports? Or, is this something that you cultivated later on in life?
Stacey 05:18
Yeah, I think, like I said, it's always been there. I'm not sure that there was a pivotal moment, I think it's just always been there, and I've always held roles of leadership, even when I was playing sports. People would say, "Oh, you know, you be the captain, or you go and have the conversation, or you know what to say." And so, that was a pattern that's always been there, but I got to a certain point in my leadership career, I guess, where I was, like, "You know what?" I feel like, as a leader, an up and coming leader, I wish there were more people I could learn from, or I could look at and go, "Ah, I want to model what they're doing, or I want to be doing some of the things that they've managed to achieve." And I didn't see enough of that around me and so, I got to a certain point and I thought, "I need to actually go and do something about this." It happened to coincide with the point which I was sort of considering having a family as well, and it just wasn't going to gel very well with my corporate career, with the hours I was working and that sort of thing. And so, those couple of things together, I guess, were the point where I went, "There's a bigger game to play, and I'll go and do something that is about contributing to elevating the practice of leadership." That happened quite a long time ago now, but ever since then, everything that I've done has been about fostering and cultivating leadership at all levels. Mostly, I work with very senior leaders these days, but I think one of the biggest things about that is that leaders have a responsibility to build and grow more leaders. So, I'm kind of fulfilling that and I want to encourage more very senior leaders to fulfill that, to grow the people around them because again, the world is crying out for leadership, and we all have a responsibility to be one of those leaders, or grow more of those leaders.
Ron 07:03
Absolutely, we really do, especially if you have that knowledge, and you have that experience. It's so powerful to share that with everyone. What was the turning point, for you, where you felt as though, "I have to not only help others, I don't have to share my experience. I also have to write books about it?" What was the turning point and the approach that you took for going at it even more in scaling your efforts?
Stacey 07:27
Yeah, good questions. I think, again, I'm not sure that there was a point in time. I had been thinking about this leadership space for a really long time, and I guess one of the keys, of course, to making a difference is to create awareness, right? It's to get in front of as many people as possible. And so, in terms of writing books, that's a fairly obvious one. So, I've been doing a lot of really good work with
leaders and organizations to build leadership skills and capacity and capability. That was going really well. I actually did have a moment, I kind of woke up in the middle of the night and I was like, "You know what?" You're not doing enough. It's great that people that you're working with are getting all of this great information and insight, and that sort of thing, but there's so many other people out there that don't get exposed to that." And that's when the idea of writing a book sort of first came up. How could I get that information to more people?
Stacey 08:18
Really, that was, I guess, the drive behind writing my very first book, which was about 2018, maybe? It was a challenge for me, because I didn't consider myself a writer, I sort of consider myself more of a speaker than a writer. That was a bit of a challenge, you know, how do I go about writing a book? And then I found a process that really works for me and I went on a book retreat, which was write your book in a week. Like, go into this space with all of this amazing support, and coaches and guidance, and write your book. And that sounded perfect for me, because I like to work with intensity. That's how I wrote my first book and of course, I discovered I can write a book, and I can share all of this great information with the world. And so, now, I have written quite a number of books and it's a very quick process for me, because I actually voice record my books. I don't type them out, I voice record and then I edit them. Once I had the process down, I was like, "Oh, I can write books." About 18 months after that, I wrote my second book and then, in 2021, I wrote three books altogether, just because I've now learned this process. So, you know, we were talking about a little earlier, that I published two books in December and that was because I wanted to challenge myself, but I had so much important stuff to get into the world on actually two very different topics. And so, I decided that I would write two more books and publish those together and get that, what I think is important information, out to more people, so that more people have got the opportunity and the choice and the information that they need.
Chris 09:51
Wow, that is incredible. I need to check out this book writing retreat. It sounds incredible, but it sounds so daunting, all at the same time. When you've gone through and you've coached all these leaders, especially at the executive level, I'm sure you run into common problems, problems that people always have when they might have been great at what they do, they might have stuck around for a long time, but they never really put the practice into their leadership ability. What are some of the common obstacles that people have that keeps them from being the best leader that they can be?
Stacey 10:26
Gosh, there's such a variety, but I think there's a couple of patterns that I guess I would share. One is the busyness. I don't know whether you guys experienced this, but busyness. How are you today? I'm busy. And this whole concept of busy isn't actually very effective. Busy is just doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff. And so, one of the things that I find that great leaders do is that they're really clear about where they make a difference, where they add value, where they can make a real contribution, and that's what they do. They don't focus on being busy, they focus on the important stuff. And so, that's a really big distinction. So, leaders who are busy, or working silly hours, doing emails in the middle of the night or on the weekends, that kind of stuff, that doesn't create great leadership, that just ticks boxes. And so, that would be, I think, almost the number one stumbling block I find, because those leaders are
operating in busy, but they're also operating in this kind of mind clutter. They don't have the space to think because they're just full of stuff to do. So, that would be my number one thing.
Stacey 11:34
The second thing that I would say, and I must also say I typically work with amazing leaders who are super aspirational, that's why I'm drawn to work with them, but the things that I do hear about leaders who maybe haven't recognized that the role of leadership, it's a privilege. And if you have a role in an organization, where you have this responsibility for delivering part of that organization's portfolio, and looking after the people that do that? That's an enormous privilege and responsibility. I think, sometimes, there's a gap between where the leader is in terms of their awareness and their actual responsibility. And so, I think that that can be a bit of a gap, I guess, in terms of actually delivering on your leadership. If you haven't recognized the magnitude of that responsibility, then you're probably not going to deliver on it. And so, that gap, we need to close consistently.
Stacey 12:30
And then, the third thing is, I would say more general. For me, leadership is something that you need to practice. You need to get better at it, you need to continually learn, so that you can always be incrementally improving your leadership. You've always got something to offer the people around you, and I find that there are some leaders who feel like they've got nothing left to learn. And for me, that is like the death knell of leadership because if you've got nothing left to learn, you're not leading anymore.
Ron 13:03
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Ron 13:45
Dang, I feel somewhat called out in some ways, at least what the first point of being too busy and not really having that space to think and be creative. I would imagine that a lot of leaders and even individuals, practitioners, independent contributors, fall into that trap where they're constantly trying to be more productive, or constantly trying to find ways to optimize their schedule, but then you just end up with more things that you have to respond to and ultimately, fires that you have to put out. How do you apply some of these lessons to your own personal life and business? Tell us a story about how you've discovered one of these insights, or discoveries, and then used that information to make your leadership abilities even better.
Stacey 14:28
Oh, gosh, you're really testing me, aren't you? You're testing my recall. So, I think I'll stick with the business one because I feel like so many people are caught in that little cycle. They jump on the treadmill every day and they don't really get off. So, I think that, for me, a couple of things. One is, in my own corporate career, I was super busy and I realized that I needed to get myself sorted because I couldn't keep working these silly hours. What I find is people kind of do get in a cycle because when you work long hours, or you do emails at silly times, or you're always available to the people around you, that sort of thing, you set this precedent. And so, it becomes expected that that's what's going to happen. You sort of set yourself up for this little cycle and it's like, "Oh, my God, how do I get out of this?" And so, one of the things that you really need to do is, firstly, for yourself, draw up the boundaries. When am I available? When am I not available? When do I do work? When don't I do work? What are the key things I need to focus on? And what do I really not need to do because either it's not important, or someone else can do it? And so, be really clear about those boundaries. That's the first thing, and I should also say that partly, I learned this in my career, and also, I spent a few years as a productivity consultant, so I got this kind of accelerated education.
Stacey 15:49
So, draw the boundaries for yourself, and follow them, of course, and then, begin to educate the people around you that you're not actually available outside of hours and things like that. So, even on my voicemail, I have a message which says something along the lines, it changes from time to time, but basically, "Hey, thanks for your message, I'll be returning my calls at this time of the day, or after 4pm, or tomorrow at nine o'clock, or something like that," because that just sets the expectation. People don't expect me to call back because I've already told them, I won't be calling them back until a certain time. And while it seems a small thing, I now don't need to field the follow up calls and all of the stuff that would normally happen, or the email that says, "Hey, you haven't answered my call." And so, there are things that we can put in place to establish those boundaries for ourselves and for others. Once we educate people that we are, in fact, not on our device, waiting for their email to come in, because we've got nothing else to do except wait for the email. Once we educate people in that and set that
expectation for them and for us, things get a lot easier. And we simply then create some space and some time to do like, the really cool stuff, the things that are going to move the dial, the strategic stuff, the creative stuff, the innovative stuff, that we need to have some space for. When you're plowing through email, you typically don't get the most amazing ideas of how to make progress, right? We've got to create space, and that means, first and foremost, is set boundaries.
Chris 17:18
What about those people that have a really hard time with setting those boundaries? "Oh, I just want to help everyone, if I tell them I'm busy or tell them no, they'll think I mean." What sort of creative license do you give for those people that just want to be helpful, but are over taxed when it comes to their job?
Stacey 17:37
I guess, there's a few different things that I might talk to them about. One of them is there is a line, there's helping people, and then there's spoon-feeding them so they can't help themselves. Like, there's a point at which people really need to be able to do, for example, their own job. They can't just keep coming back to you all the time. And so, I guess it's about: At what point is your help, actually not helping them? So, that would be one thing to consider. And then the other thing is to consider, in the bigger picture of what you're responsible for and the difference that you can make, regardless of your role, but particularly for leaders, because they impact lots of other people as well, is in that context, what actually is the most important thing for you to do? Is it to do whatever you had been working on? Or, is it to go and help this other person? And so, making those choices a little bit more consciously, rather than just always going and helping and taking yourself away from your own work, being really clear about: Will I go and help this person? Or, will I keep focused on this important thing that I was doing? And if you want to keep focus, then of course, we don't just give people the brush off, we don't be rude. We let them know, "Hey, at the moment, I'm focused on this, can I help you after lunch?" So, I think if we let people know that we're doing something else, and that it has a big impact, then they're much more understanding. Also, we're giving that other person some time to see if they can figure that thing out on their own rather than relying on us. So, there's lots of things going on and I know, for some people, it is challenging to say, "Not now or not yet or no," but I think practice makes it a little bit easier. If you've thought it through first, you know what makes the right decision here and then, be nice about how you deliver that.
Ron 19:35
Yeah, you actually had a really good point about maybe introducing that opportunity to someone else, someone else that has the time and the space to fulfill that ask that someone else put on you. And you know, this is one of the things that Chris and I have been really trying to work on, is not necessarily just being the people that are very talented, but to be a connector for others, to help others get that opportunity that we had because the more relationships that we set up, and the more opportunities that we give others, the more that are going to ultimately find their way back to us.
Stacey 20:07
Yeah, they're on such a great thought process. And in fact, let me tell you, there's lots of evidence that actually supports those people that do the connecting, that do kind of support the flow of ideas and relationships, and that sort of thing. They get some really good outcomes from that and, you're right, it does come back. Those people do tend to do better in life overall, have better relationships, get more rewards, get more information, access to opportunity, and support, and all of that sort of thing. They're typically better light, which is kind of nice, right? So, I think that's just such a great opportunity and if you can be, again, be conscious about supporting those kinds of things, I think that's an amazing thing to do and everybody wins.
Chris 20:53
Everybody wins. One of my favorite aspects of being a leader is grooming the next level of leadership because I think that's a skill that not many people really talk about. So, when you have the time to either cultivate the people on your team into leaders, or even just people in general, just mentees or anything like that, I think is such a special thing because when I see my mentees, and they're stepping into leadership positions, they're taking over and they're doing really, really good things, and I see them being good leaders, they're being supportive, and being servant leaders, it really just brightens up my day. What are some of the tenants that you follow for cultivating the next level of leadership?
Stacey 21:33
By the way, I just love hearing you say all of it, I think that's amazing. I do really believe that one of the fundamentals of leadership is the responsibility to grow more leaders. So, thank you. For me, there are three key things that we need to do. The first one is, of course, we need to mentor. We need to share our wisdom and our stories and that sort of thing, because that's how people get knowledge or get new perspectives. And so, we need to mentor the people around us. The second thing, of course, is we need to role model. What does leadership look like? What does it do? So that people know what it is to be a leader, to go through a day as a leader. I think there's that saying that if you can't see it, you can't be it. And so, we need to show leadership and really be recognized. And I don't know what that every leader recognizes this, that every day, you're role modeling. You may not be role modeling great stuff, but you are role modeling. And so, you have a responsibility every day to recognize your role modeling.
So, you mentor, you model, and then the third thing is you coach. And so, this is about, now that they've seen what leadership looks like, now that they've got some information, actually putting it into practice, using it, thinking things through, making good choices, taking action. And so, we have this role of coaching people to be accountable, to step up, to take ownership of things and actually do it for themselves and the people around them. And so, I think with those three things, we've got sort of the ingredients of growing the leaders around us.
Ron 23:05
One of the things that I really love to hear is this cultivation of others, and even the cultivation of oneself, of taking all of the experience and doing something with it. You were talking about how you used to help others with productivity, and many other areas of that that are connected to leadership. Now that you have established an expertise in this arena, where do you imagine the next level of expertise coming and going towards? Is it something that's related to leadership? Is it kind of reaching another level of leadership experience and coaching? Where are you headed with all of this?
Stacey 23:45
Yeah, gosh, there's so much. I mean, if I just say leadership, that's just such an expansive area. I think it is, there's so much in it. So, for me, it's, I guess, more of the same but also continuing. So, one of the things that I really focus on myself is my own thought leadership, and so, my own learning about: How do I develop my thinking, so that I'm actually able to articulate leadership with clarity, and also to be able to share that with the people around me? So, a lot of, I guess, my learning and self-leadership is about actually expanding my ability to think and to share that thinking with others. And so, in that way, I'm continuing to grow myself. So, I've always got more to share. And then, how do I then actually promulgate that messaging around the world? For this year, I've got a really big focus on speaking and so, I'm going to be developing myself there, so that I can share the messaging more broadly, and just raise awareness about the practice of leadership and that, like me, we all need to keep learning. So, I'm not sure if I've specifically answered your question, but that's some of the stuff that's going on for me, which this is about me growing my own skills, which is modeling leadership, I guess, so that I'm then able to support and help develop and foster and cultivate even more people to step up and really become, or elevate, their own leadership.
Ron 25:18
That's really powerful, because you're talking about being a thought leader, and also developing your way of thinking. I think a lot of times, you don't really think about how you think. What are the thoughts that are going through your head? How do you convey these messages and convey these thoughts? I love that path and that journey that you're embarking on.
Stacey 25:37
Yeah, thank you. It's pretty fun.
Chris 25:40
So, there's someone that's listening to this podcast right now, and they want to be a better leader. It sounds like you are constantly doing that, even though you are the expert in this field, you're constantly pushing and improving yourself. What is that high leverage action that someone could take tomorrow to be a better leader?
Stacey 25:59
I think that it all starts with awareness. The number one thing that I talked to my leaders about is actually to notice what's going on. Observe themselves in all those situations, when they're having conversations, when they're leading a meeting, when they're presenting, when they're thinking it. Notice what's going on. How are they showing up? What are they doing well? What can be improved? Because that's what creates awareness, which then creates opportunity, because then we can figure out if we've got a gap and how to close it, or we can figure out: Is there an aspiration? And we can work on that. I want to particularly talk about the listening thing that you mentioned, though, because again, this is a big one, what I notice is the most influential leaders, the most impactful leaders are amazing listeners because when we listen, we learn. We learn what's going on, we learn more information, because when we talk, we only repeat what we know.
Stacey 26:56
So, listening is a very powerful thing for leaders and the upshot also of listening is, there's some great research from the Eye Opener Institute in the UK, where they've done research over many, many years, and what they talk about is the impact of the feeling of being listened to on people's positive mindset, and therefore, their ability to actually perform at work. And it's the number one factor to actually have a positive impact on people, the feeling of being listened to by their leader. I mean, that's amazing. What an incredible difference, as leaders, we could make, simply by improving our listening. So, the first thing is, I would say general awareness. So, you notice what the opportunities are for you to grow your leadership and then, if you want something specific to do, focus on improving your listening because it not only gives you as a leader more insight into what's going on, but it also has sort of ripple effect to the people who feel like they're being listened to, and their performance actually can
be positively impacted by it.
Chris 27:58
That is absolutely perfect. Stacey, thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule to hop on the mics with us. For the folks that want to stay up to date with you and the incredible things you have going on in your world, and also get your books, what are the best ways that people can do that?
Stacey 28:12
Sure. So, I'm on LinkedIn as Stacey Ashley, so that's pretty easy to find. My website is
StacyAshley.com, and all my books are on Amazon.
Ron 28:21
Excellent. We will be sure to drop those into the show notes for everyone to check out and stay up to date with you. Stacey, we really appreciate the time, and we'll see everyone next episode.
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