This week, hosts Gianna Whitver and Maria Velazquez sit down with Brittany Geronimo to discuss unique takes on reusing design content in a marketing design process. Gianna and Maria ask Brittany how she turns whitepapers and ebooks into eye-catching, marketable content in her position at BlueVoyant -- which offers internal and external cyber defense services. Brittany also guides listeners through her workflow explaining the unique ways she keeps pushing the boundaries with new and creative content in her field of cybersecurity marketing.
[00:00] Start of episode
[02:27] Repurposing whitepapers and ebooks for marketing
[06:04] How to imagine content assets as reusable from start to finish
[08:02] Gated vs ungated content in marketing assets
[14:47] Crafting a unique message while staying loyal to the brand
[17:28] Keeping consistent themes to tell brand storiesWhat does the planning journey look like when you’re deciding to repurpose content?
How do you create a content asset that will engage an audience? Brittany explains her marketing strategy in how she takes any tier-one asset to then turn it into digestible and easy-to-follow, creative content. These assets could be anything from an eBook, a whitepaper, or a report. Brittany shares how she takes these large lumps of information and condenses them down into either LinkedIn infographics or carousel posts making them marketable and useful for people to follow. Each creative product relates back to which type of asset Brittany starts with while each final product circles back with an option to explore the subject further by linking the eBook or larger report. Brittany breaks down her process with marketing design ideas and how she goes from what she calls a “tier one asset” to a “tier two asset.”
“I think there's a lot of pressure sometimes to just put out as much content as possible . . . But I think taking a step back and saying okay, what do we have? What else can we possibly do with it? Then, you sort of end up with these nice buckets of content that's all related that you can then use in future campaigns.”Imagining content as reusable from start-to-finish
Brittany walks listeners through how she’s already thinking about how to make content more marketable as she looks through ‘tier-one’ material. Sometimes, Brittany is involved on the front end of the marketing design process and is able to shape tier-one assets in such a way that makes them reusable for more content later on. Also, it’s important to edit content and style it to fit the audience: reused content intended for a CSO will look different than content intended for someone on LinkedIn. Good design means knowing how to make content within the marketing design process that will catch the eyes of many different audiences.
“if you think about repurposing at the beginning, you'll have more opportunity to do so as opposed to we already have this thing that's finished. It can be done both ways. But I think if you're thinking about it always, it really helps.”Gating vs not gating: what’s the best philosophy?
Which type of content should be gated and what type of content shouldn’t be gated? What’s the overall best philosophy with gated content marketing? Brittany explains where and why she finds gating to be essential with certain types of content. She also highlights how she leans towards making content more accessible overall. Brittany also adds, through this philosophy, how she seeks to create a brand that others think of when they have a project in motion.
“I personally lean toward less gating, because I think if you put up too many roadblocks, people are just going to abandon their cart, per se, or form . . . I personally don’t like to put up too many roadblocks.”How to make a message stand out while staying loyal to the brand
How can someone make their message stand out but not abandon their brand’s theme? Brittany says that there is a balance and that it takes compromise—but that it can still be done. Big fast food chains can afford to attract a high volume of attention through social media with crazy posts. This may not work for everyone but Brittany explains that brands can still think outside of the box while maintaining their company’s style. It’s also important to find themes and ways that an audience can consistently recognize a brand while continuing to find interest in the messaging.
“There's a lot of stuff out there content wise that people are getting just like hammered with all day, like on LinkedIn and other channels. So I think having a different look really makes you stand out . . . I think good design goes a long way.”
Whitepapers: Whitepapers are business reports that include data and analyses making information presentable to a company.
Top-funnel/mid-funnel: Levels of audience to a brand or company and their awareness to the products or services—top funnel being those not yet aware of the company and the mid funnel being those who have shown interest and might engage with the company.
Gated/ungated: This refers to whether or not content is made available to an audience through paywalls or other selective processes: gated refers to content that is exclusive through a fee, etc. and ungated is content that is available and free to virtually anyone.
Spend some time with our guest Brittany Geronimo on LinkedIn
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Catch up with Maria on LinkedIn.
Welcome to the breaking through and cybersecurity Marketing Podcast, where we
explore the hottest topics in cyber marketing, interview experts and help you become a
better cybersecurity marketer.
Hello, and welcome to another great episode of Breaking Through in Cybersecurity
Marketing. I'm one of your hosts Gianna Whitver and with me is Maria Velasquez. And
we are so excited because we have the amazing Brittany Geronimo on today. She is the
Director of Content Marketing at BlueVoyant. And she is here to tell us all about—what
does she say, Maria? Reducing and reusing . . .
Yeah, reuse, recycle.
Exactly, content marketing, and also about incorporating design into content from the
start—which is an interesting perspective. Brittany, we're so excited to have you on
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
So before we start, Brittany, could you give us a little bit of context about BlueVoyant?
What do you guys do? And like, what stage of company are you at?
Sure, so BlueVoyant provides internal and external cyber defense. So that's everything
from managed detection and response, digital risk protection, and third party cyber risk
management—as well as professional services. So, we are in the growth stage, we've
got about 700 employees based around the country. So yeah, it's a really exciting time.
That's so fun. How big is your marketing team? How's it structured?
So, we have product marketing, I report into growth marketing, and then there's field
marketing. And then we have an amazing design team, I want to say about 20 to 30
people. We got a good solid team.
Nice, very nice. That's awesome. Where do you fit in the content side of the house? Is it
just using content? Or do you have other people that are under you? Or how does it
Yeah, so as of right now, it's myself, I kind of handle the strategy and, you know,
planning out the editorial. And then we have someone else who's amazing, he handles
kind of the backend of things. So you know, once a piece is done, it'll go to him for
distribution. So it goes, you know, on our internal network, it'll go on social and the
website and all that good stuff. So I'm very grateful to have someone who's not, you
know, so I'm not doing every single piece of the content journey.
Oh, yeah, that'd be a lot. So let's jump into that what we were saying at the beginning
about the repurposing content. It's an interesting perspective that everybody agrees is
the right thing to do repurpose content. But it's hard to get going, I feel if you haven't
done it before, and you're kind of it's hard to get going in like a strategic way is what I
feel. You have, oh, we released a white paper. Now, what do we do about it? I feel like
this is something that should be more incorporated in the planning stages of content
too, like knowing ahead of time that you're going to slice and dice your content. So how
do you even like, just start thinking about content that way? What is like the planning
journey look like when you're deciding to repurpose content?
Yeah, so kind of how I have our program set up is that we have, you know, a tier-one
asset. So that's your ebook, your white paper, your report, anything that you're going to
gauge, or that would maybe you would use at the end of a nurture campaign, I start with
that. We populate the editorial calendar, ideally, a couple months in advance—it doesn't
always happen. And then I'm kind of immediately looking at opportunities to do what I
call a tier two asset. So that's breaking down that big piece. So that's something like, if
I'm doing an ebook, I'm pretty much always going to do an infographic version. And at
the end of the infographic, there's a button that says, "Want the full story? Here's the
ebook." So you're leading people back around. And then from there, you know, an
infographic can always become like a carousel post on LinkedIn. So then I'll have our
design team break it down into different images, and that goes on LinkedIn. From there,
I'm sure there's a way to break that down even further. But you know, it's just like
moving down the line, I think every piece of content has so much opportunity that you
just have to kind of change that mindset of, you know, I think there's a lot of pressure
sometimes to just put out as much content as possible, which is not a wrong strategy, I
don't think—and I'm certainly guilty of it. But I think taking a step back and saying okay,
what do we have? What else can we possibly do with it? Because then you sort of end
up with these nice buckets of content that's all related that you can then use in future
for our listeners that can't see our faces as Britney's talking and giving us these
examples, Deanna and I are nodding with like the biggest smiles on our faces, because
it's just so amazing. Yes, it's such amazing ideas. And then it gives our potential leads
and maybe even current customers the opportunity to engage with content based on
how much time they have, right. I can't read an ebook right now, but I could totally get
the gist of what it has with this one-pager or an infographic and I love giving that option.
Yeah, absolutely. It's great, you know, something with webinars that I like to do I use is a
tool called Otter AI as a transcription service. And I feel like a lot of those services, you
kind of get garbage, like you really can't use that transcription, but otter AI like It's like
90% of the time, it's pretty usable. So, you know, we'll transcribe a webinar, then you
have the actual transcript, once you clean it up, you can put that on the website. And
you can put timestamps on there. And then I'll do a blog for sure, maybe an article, then
I'll do like pull quotes. And maybe we'll do like some kind of animated video with like
On-screen text, and then the audio from the webinar for social. So there's just so many
different ways, I get like an adrenaline rush when like, we get a big piece of content,
like, "oh, like, what else can we do with this?" There's so many cool things.
When you mentioned you take the full transcript of the webinar, and you put it on the
website, do you then format it into a blog post and then put on your website? Or is it
with the video on the same page and then the transcript and bottom?
That's a good question. So I think there's a lot of ways—we're kind of still
experimenting—but for one, it's definitely a blog post. And you know, obviously, it's a
short 500-word thing, and then I'm linking back to the on-demand webinar is like, "Hey,
do you want the full story?" Here's the webinar.
When you're planning assets and content assets, webinars, these tier one things that
you're going to chop and take your bell pepper and turn it into sliced bell pepper and put
it in the sock tape pan and then add other things, whatever. I'm trying to make an
analogy. It's not really working.
Gianna, are you hungry?
I am. I am a lot hungry. That's true. Brittany, when you are like strategizing around this
to your own content, is there anything you do in particular to make it like able to be
broken down further in the future like, or is there some other way that you're thinking
and strategizing about new content assets in order to make sure that they can have this
long tail of use in the future?
Some of the time I'm writing things, but for the most part of they're coming to me, here's
an e-book, here's the white paper. So I'm not necessarily involved in the very beginning
on some pieces, but when I am, we can definitely look at it as more like a package deal.
So let's say we have an idea, hey, we're going to do an ebook on cyber insurance,
something like that. That's kind of a hot topic, then at that point, when we're involved at
the beginning, we can think about, okay, here's all the different like swim lanes we have.
And then from there, you can figure out, okay, if you think about repurposing at the
beginning, you'll have more opportunity to do so as opposed to we already have this
thing that's finished. It can be done both ways. But I think if you're thinking about it
always, it really helps.
Is there a way that you're also editing to different audiences? When you're doing this
slice and dice slice? Slice and dice sounds so not professional.
Very elegant, but it's kind of I mean, it's essentially what we're doing. Yeah, absolutely. I
mean, I think when you're marketing something to a CSO, versus someone who's
maybe at a different level, or maybe not clear decision maker —or better an
influencer—they're gonna want different content. So that's where the things that we're
putting on social like the infographics, interactive landing pages, things like that. That's
where we're sort of editing for those audiences that maybe we want something a little
quicker, it's just to kind of get to it faster. Definitely editing to different audiences.
Here's a question about to gate are to ungate? What's your philosophy?
Oh, that's a good question. That's hard. It's a debate that every team I've been on, I
personally lean toward less gating, because I think if you put up too many roadblocks,
people are just going to abandon their cart, per se, or form. So it really depends, like I
said, these bigger tier one assets, we're gonna gate them because they're valuable, we
worked hard, we want to be able to get that credit, I guess. But things like infographics,
things that are smaller, that people are just kind of gathering information and doing
research, I personally don't like to put up too many roadblocks. If they're that interested
in us, and they really want to work with us, they want to learn more, they're gonna find a
way to learn more, and they'll come back and maybe get that higher value asset. So I'm
kind of on the fence. But I think I lean more toward let people do their research, let them
learn. And then we become a brand that they think of when they have a project going
Love that. And that's staying true to we're educating the audience, they will so then
educate them don't take away information and put it behind a form. What about going
back to the strategy piece? Do you usually follow the whole pillar and cluster sort of
methodology when you're looking at this where the pillar will eventually become clusters
of different repurposed pieces of content? Is that what you do?
That's a big part of our program as well. So we'll decide on two to three themes or
buckets or whatever you want to call it for each quarter. And that's not to say that every
piece of content must fit into one of these buckets. But it's a really nice way to think
about it, and be a little more strategic, because then you know, let's say the end of the
quarter, you end up with all these pieces that loosely relate to this one theme, and then
you can build a campaign around that in the next quarter. So that's something I've done
more recently that I'm really enjoying. And it's fun to kind of do some social listening and
see, you know, what is the market talking about as we're thinking about what are we
going to talk about next quarter or next year and figuring out what's relevant and how
can we join that conversation?
What's your favorite piece of content that you've worked on so far?
Oh man, I don't know about a specific. I love anything really visual. I know white papers
are sort of like a cornerstone of content marketing, but something like an infographic or
an ebook that is really beautifully done, which kind of leads into I know a topic we're
gonna talk about later, which is design and how that plays into content. But I think
something like that where you can really have less words, which may sound
counterintuitive, but I think more impactful words and a beautiful design. That's
something that I get excited about
Love that. So some things are more like you said, infographics that have like punchy
words and colors and like really draw the eye and then there are ebooks and then there
are other pieces of assets that are created. Do you think about things a lot of people
think about content in this like tofu Mofu Bofu stages, top of funnel, middle of funnel
bottom of funnel? How are you categorizing your content assets? Are you doing a
similar thing? Are you doing something different? Or how are you thinking about that?
We are yeah, so kind of I have sort of in my head, this picture of our like the different
types of assets we do, where they fall, if people are researching if it's just for
awareness, I mean, I personally think the top of the funnel stuff is the most fun, right?
Because that's your stuff on social that people just finding out about you, that's your
chance to really share with your audience who we are. And that's where the brand
comes in. So definitely like the infographic, those types of things, we're looking at as top
funnel. Mid funnel is where you know, I'm working heavily with product marketing, who's
coming up with all these really informative pieces, like solution briefs, and data sheets
and those kinds of things. And then once you get toward the bottom, you're looking
more at demos and things like that. So we kind of live in all different parts of the funnel.
But for the most part, a lot of our content sits toward the top because that's when people
are really trying to figure out what you can do. And if we're a good fit.
I have the same picture in my head of my content assets and where they fit and it's a
PowerPoint slide. Yes. Like thinking PowerPoint slides after a while.
My head is a PowerPoint slide. My head has a lot of tabs open is what it is.
So why don't we talk about design and the impact of design on content? And will you
start with telling us about your philosophy on design and content and how those two
Yeah, absolutely. I think they carry each other. I am kind of a wannabe graphic designer,
I have no design training whatsoever. But I just absolutely love working with creative
people. And I've really had the privilege of working with a lot of amazing designers. So
from the beginning, in my very first job, I worked with a great team of designers and I
really got to kind of see their process and understand that when I send them an ebook
or something that I've been reviewing like there's so much that goes into them designing
that that I can't even fathom because I just don't have that skill set. So I think kind of the
old adage of content first design second, I don't think it holds because I think that like I
said they carry each other. For me, like a good title is going to draw me in if I'm thinking
about downloading an asset, but in the end, we're kind of judging books by their covers,
right, like some kind of beautiful design is really going to make your message and your
brand go so much further. So I think it's just so important to really consider design when
you're thinking about content as opposed to just something that at the end, it's your last
Asana task—oh, wait, we had to get this designed. Like it should really be thought
throughout the process.
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When it comes to figuring out the direction of the design, or maybe the tone, and
keeping in mind, right, the security audience and our ICP, what are some creative ways
that you take that direction and the design? That, you know, I don't know, I guess maybe
guaranteeing that our audience is gonna resonate with it and actually have a good
reaction from a design perspective. Because, you know, it's a tough audience, right? So
there's very, very little that excites them when it comes to marketing. So have you found
that secret sauce of design that captures their attention?
I think so. And it's certainly not me. It's our I mean, our design team. We recently went
through a rebrand which has been super exciting. I kind of came in at the end. I joined
in April, but I actually think that because there's I mean, we all know there's a lot of
noise and cybersecurity there. There's a lot of stuff out there content-wise that people
are getting just like hammered with all day, like on LinkedIn and other channels. So I
think having a different look really makes you stand out. And I think the way that you
craft that message also really stands out, you know, you don't want to just blend in with
everyone else. Because there's so much noise, as I said. I think our design team has
done a beautiful job, I love our new brand. And I think just the stuff we're putting out, I'm
really proud of that, obviously, I can take no credit for how it looks, I can just say that
here's what they did. It's amazing. I think good design goes such a long way.
How are you, like Maria said, standing out in design, without coloring outside of the
brand guidelines? I think that's something that I struggle with as the person who owns
the brand at my company, it's like, I want to do something kind of nuts and like crazy
and like out there and like get attention. But I want it to fit our brand persona and our
brand and what we do and the emotions that we elicit. So sometimes it's tough to kind
of balance that I feel it's almost like fast food chains on Twitter. They don't run
commercials, like how they talk on Twitter, like Wendy's commercials are wholesome or
funny, but not like, insane, like fast food brands are on Twitter. So is there anything that
you consider when you're working with these designers? Is there or even when writing
content—because there is that balance of like standing out and adhering to the original
brand of the company.
Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question. So I think kind of how I've always viewed it is
we're constantly trying to push the brand, but we are staying loyal to the brand. So I
think it's important to push things, maybe it's some kind of campaign where you feel like
you can maybe do like a slightly different take on the standard brand standards. Or it's
like a certain like, special piece. Let's say like, for instance, like if I'm wanting to do a big
paper that sort of brings together all of those themes I mentioned that we do each
quarter, maybe that's something that's a little more custom. And it's not, you know, a
template that we've used before. So like I said, I think it's staying loyal, but always
finding ways that you can push so that your audience still recognizes you, but
understands that you're kind of like an evolving living thing that's going to answer their
That's a really brilliant compromise. You don't break the rules, but still get what you want
creatively. That's awesome. Talk to us about the themes, how do you work with the rest
of the marketing team on their campaigns, and whatever themes you come up with for
the campaigns from a content perspective?
Yeah, so for our content, or editorial campaigns, or themes for each quarter, what I've
kind of started to do is work with our like analyst relations and public relations team and
start with them and figure out you know, what are the analysts talking about? What are
people on social talking about? And then maybe we'll pick, you know, here's five or six
suggestions. So for instance, one of ours for q3 was cyber resiliency. So that's going to,
I think, be kind of like a long-running theme. But it's really finding things that if you start
to go back to like a PowerPoint slide, if I put a table up with all of our business units and
our themes, where can all those business units, then fill in that matrix to show like,
where they play in and what stories they can tell—kind of a way to test those themes as
making sure that they play well with each of the business units. And then we can all tell
a different story, not maybe not a different story, but complementary stories that apply to
all those different audiences.
Makes a lot of sense. I love that.
How do you tell if anything that you're doing is working? When I say that it sounds like
I'm saying none of it is, but how do you actually tell? And to target this question like
towards this working with designers from the beginning, can you tell that your journey
into working with the designers from the start and incorporating the design into the
content—has that resulted in a better outcome? Is there like tracking that you do or
anything like that?
I mean, I think it's kind of subjective, at least from that perspective. I mean, I think when
you can get design excited about a piece, you really start to see like that creativity grow,
you know, if you're just sending them ebooks and white papers all day, you know, all
week and it's the same old template over and over like that's just not I personally
wouldn't think that's super interesting. So when you can say to design let's have a little
more fun with this piece. Let's see how we can push the brand in this way. I think they
get excited and I think not to speak for them but I think that's a way to really push that
boundary and I think that the more people are allowed to be creative I think the better
result you're gonna get.
Awesome. I like that. When I was in advertising, it was the formula to a good campaign
and to good ideas and to good creative was not like GO GO GO GO GO GO GO like
keep pushing out white paper, it was like alright, we learn deeply about a subject and
then we go have a beer and like relax and you need time and space to be creative. And
there is a great thread in our Slack community—the cybersecurity marketing
society—for anyone who's listening and wants to join. Visit us at
cybersecuritymarketingsociety.com about combating burnout in your design team,
because we're all so busy, and we have so much content we're producing, and it all
needs design. So engaging them from the beginning, because then they also have
ownership, right? And like they're a partner in this, it sounds like a good way to combat
that. And also trying and doing those fun, unique, creative things that are different and
aren't just a regular white paper, etc. Brittany, how do you combat burnout too someone
who's involved in the day-to-day of content? I mean, words, words, words that can get
potentially also like, in that burnout zone.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's happened to all of us. I mean, I think I do best when
I'm writing about, one, things I find interesting, which is why I came back into
cybersecurity because I just I love writing about this stuff. I think burnout is going to be
inevitable anywhere. But I think just finding ways you can constantly like find something
to be excited about find something you can push on. If you're in this pattern of ebook,
white paper, ebook, white paper, say okay, like hold on a second, let's not just keep
meeting the status quo. But how can we change this just a little bit just to kind of
recharge things, I think always having something you're looking forward to some kind of
project that's new and exciting, I think makes a big difference.
Brittany, have you done work with, for instance, leadership or internal SMEs, or even
founders in terms of getting them to create content? And if yes, how did you do that?
And then how did you also repurpose that kind of content into different ways?
So I think one way to really engage with subject matter experts is to first build that
relationship. You can't just join a company and come on everyone and say, hey, you
know, can you write this blog for me, you don't want to take advantage of anyone,
because everyone I work with is wildly smart, and also wildly busy. So you want to
respect their time. Like I said, building that relationship is so important, because when
you have a rapport with someone you want to help them. My thing is once I get a piece
of content, let's say we have someone write a paper or an article, that's when I am
going back to my repurposing and bringing as much as I possibly can out of it so that,
again, I'm respecting their time. So I'm not going to say, hey, you wrote this white paper,
can you also write this infographic and all this other stuff? Like, no, they've given me a
lot to work with. And then I figure out what I can do from there.
Love that. It's definitely one of those rare gems, right? When you do get it, you got to
spread it as much as you can and make the most of it. So especially in smaller startups,
right, where you need that voice of the expert, and you want to put the founders out
there and, and you're right, relationship building is definitely a big piece of that.
Yeah, absolutely. All right. So it's time to play our game now. Woohoo. So we are going
to guess, Brittany, if you were not in content marketing, what would you be doing today
as a job? And then we're going to both guests and then you pick which of us win. And
the winner gets a back massager from my office.
All right, I need to win this then. I have a lot of back problems.
Yeah, I'm looking around. There's not many good prizes, here. You can have my used
water bottle. You can have this back massager. Or you could have a Kirkland brand
something. Okay, so Costco, please sponsor this podcast. Who wants to go first?
I guess I'll go first, what I'm thinking of might be considered semi-cheating. But I'll go
ahead and say anyway, I don't know Brittany, I see you as this editor-in-chief at a
magazine or something of that sort. Something on the new side of things or media.
Such a cheater such a cheater, cheater, cheating chicken eater, or something? I'm
gonna cheat, too. Brittany, I think you would be living in the South of France, editing
novels at a cool novel company. Like, I guess a book publisher is what the phrase
Yeah, that's hard. Those are both really fantastic careers that I wish I had. I mean, I will
pick a winner. But the south of France one is interesting to me. So I did have an
internship in college where I worked for a literary agent and I got to read all the
submissions that came in for her and I would write a little synopsis. So that was a lot of
fun. So I did consider going into publishing. And then Maria, I like yours as well. I gotta
say, that's probably I think Maria might be the winner because that's probably where—I
thought about going into journalism then shifted this route instead. To be a little more
creative in journalism—I think that's frowned upon when you're too creative in journalism, so I liked the idea of marketing (so I think Maria wins) but both really good
Yay. Winner winner chicken dinner. Goodbye back problems. You better ship me that
back massager ASAP.
All right. Well, thank you, Brittany, for sharing with us all of your tips and tricks on
recycling content without pissing off your SMEs. And on why design should be at the
forefront of the planning process and not the end with and I'm guilty because I have a
Trello board. And the last step in the content process currently is in design. And then it's
posted the website. So totally guilty there. And I'm going to take what you said and
actually apply it to what we're doing. So appreciate all of your comments and
everything. It's been fun having you.
Yeah, this was super fun.
Yes, thank you for having me. I loved it.
Brittany gave us a link to Content Marketing Institute and an article on incorporating
design into your content planning process, and we'll include that in the show notes.
Brittany, where else can people who have questions about content and design and the
mixing of the two and repurposing content—how can they reach out to you?
Sure. So I'd love to chat on LinkedIn, feel free to add me there and send me a message.
I love talking content. So yeah, I'm here.
Awesome. If you have feedback for breaking through in cybersecurity marketing,
including comments—only nice comments, though—comments, suggestions, other
ideas. Send us a note at heythere@cybersecuritymarketing society.com
Thank you so much for listening. Thanks for joining us today. Don't forget to give this
episode five stars because it was totally a 10 star kind of episode. But since all, all we
have is five, just give us some stars please and subscribe. And don't forget to tune in
next week an episode drops every Wednesday. Brittany, thank you so much. We really
appreciate it. Lots of great advice and insight that I'm gonna go this way and apply it
literally right now in my job.
Thank you. See y'all next time.